The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Dear Taco....

Dear Taco....
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Sunday, May 19 2013, 16:37:23 (UTC)
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..ordinarily I don't discuss with janitors...but I'll make an exception.


Taoro wrote:
>Contrary to the popular belief, ancient Assyrians survived their 612 BC defeat, and their descendants continued into the Christian era. As Assyrialogist H.W.F. Saggs puts it: "The destruction of the Assyrian empire did not wipe out its population. They were predominantly peasant farmers, and since Assyria contains some of the best wheat land in the Near East, descendants of the Assyrian peasants would, as opportunity permitted, build new villages over the old cities and carry on with agricultural life, remembering traditions of the former cities. After seven or eight centuries and various vicissitudes, these people became Christians."


...well, good for you! You finally found someONE...and you even managed to bring a quote...if you'd read any books earlier we could have avoided all the rest of your nonsense...of course assyrian villagers remained...no Assyriologist has EVER said assyrians were killed down to the last man woman or child. Assyrians survived the downfall of Nineveh, Babylonians survived the downfall of Babylon as Sumerians survived the destruction of Sumer...that has never been in question...never

...here are some quotes for you to deal with...by which I mean to bring other quotes that challenge these...or, are you going to pull, "I am a janitor" on us again? These are from Joseph...HIS words, not mine.


“Modern Assyrian writers usually cite a statement that assyriologist Sidney Smith allegedly made early in the twentieth century, namely, that the ancient Assyrians disappeared ‘immediately’ and ‘vanished’ after the fall of Nineveh in 612 B.C. To ‘disprove’ Smith, they cite another assyriologist, W.W. Tarn, who noted that for centuries after the fall of their empire, Assyrian ‘survivors’ perpetuated old Assyrian names at various places on the site of ancient Ashur. Edward Y. Odishoo (a modern Assyrian nationalist, mine) refers to ‘a few’ historians who ‘talk about the continuation of the (Assyrian) [sic] identity’ until the establishment of Christianity in geographical Assyria, some eight centuries after the fall of the Assyrian empire. What do these few historians and assyriologists really ‘talk about’?” p. 28


“Excavations in northern Iraq, according to Sidney Smith, ‘have it is true, shown that poverty-stricken communities perpetuated the old Assyrian names…but the essential truth,’ he concludes, ‘remains the same’: the Assyrians were ‘unduly devoted to practices which can only end in racial suicide’. W.W Tarn notes that under the Parthians in the early 3rd century A.D. ‘a little body of people’ worshipped the god Ashur; he describes theirs as ‘a pathetic survival’. More recently assyriologist Joan Oates, in a section entitled ‘Assyria after the fall’, points out that on the site of old Ashur, where ‘a large Parthian city’ was excavated, the influence of Assyrian tradition and symbolism can sometimes be seen ‘in architecture and art’. Patricia Crone and Michael Cook, in their Hagarism note than under the Parthians ‘The temple of Ashur was restored, the city was rebuilt, and an Assyrian successor state returned in the shape of the client kingdom of Adiabene’, adding that the region had an Assyrian ‘self-identification’ and speak of the survival of ‘a native aristocracy’.” p 28

...I'll jump in here to point out that in the next paragraph Joseph is writing about Odishoo, an assyrian so-called, who is not an Assyriologist or historian but one of those amateurs we have too many of....the gist of what he says is interesting and highlights just how these amateurs work...perpend...


“According to Odisho, the resurrection and rebuilding of Assyria were done by the ‘strong native Assyrian aristocracy’ that he believes flourished under the benign rule of the Parthians. A more careful reading of Roux, however, would have shown that there is no mention of any Assyrian involvement in the reoccupation and reconstruction of the ‘towns and villages which had been lying in ruins for hundreds of years’. In the very next sentence following the above quotation, left out by Odisho, Roux writes that it must be emphasized that the ‘revived settlements had very little in common with their Assyrian or Babylonian precursors’; that the old Sumero-Akkadian civilization, which was ‘perpetuated by a few priests in a few temples’, was an ‘ossified’ civilization that simply could not withstand the profound ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural changes that were introduced by successive waves of invaders in northern Mesopotamia…Persians ,Greeks, Arameans, pre-Islamic Arabs…’who could be neither kept at bay nor assimilated’. This massive influx of foreign peoples and ideas ‘had submerged what was left of the Sumero-Akkadian civilization.” pp 28-29

Odishoo left out the crucial sentence from what he lifted from that book...and this is what they ALL do...they scramble and rearrange what facts they find to make their case, because they are propagandists, not historians and not filled with much integrity either...if you did this as an historian, your career would be over.


And this brings us to the crux of the matter;


“Speaking specifically of the ancient Assyrians, Roux explains in what sense the ancient Assyrians ‘disappeared’: they were a people who had forgotten their Akkadian mother tongue, and a ‘nation which forgets its language forgets its past and soon loses its identity.” p 29

...THAT is how we "disappeared"...no one has EVER said our gentic material disappeared...they have said, as our parents now warn us, "forget your language and you will forget your identity"...what happened to the ancients; forgetting language and next history and culture, is exactly what we fear today...only it isn't ASSYRIAN we are in danger of forgetting, but ARAMAIC...we stopped being Assyrian centuries ago.


Other Assyrialogists such as Simo Parpola, Robert D. Diggs, Austen Henry Layard, Hormuzd Rassam and probably a couple of other ones claims that we are of the assyrians, but are all of them agents of west or are they all talking shit, or are they not surgeons but gardners or maby taxi drivers

...show us, don't just TELL us...where are the quotes from Layard and Rassam? Neither of those two EVER said the Christians there were Assyrians, they both called us CHALDEANS...the title to Layards book has CHALDEAN not ASSYRIAN in it...and several others say it the same way...Parpola, and these other Assyriologist are fine for ANCIENT Assyrian history...Parpola says one thing, Roux and Smith and Tarn say another...yes, assyrians survived the fall of empire, but did not keep their identity for long...and the evidence for that has already been put to you...we speak ARAMAIC and knew nothing of assyrian history till the Euros told us...because we FORGOT...and to this day we don't know who has assyrian DNA and who doesn't...but we do know that being Christian has nothing to do with being descended from the ancients.

...we await your further quotes and sources.....disprove Crone and Cook, Tarn and Smith and Roux....go on. And bring us the WORDS of the other experts, like you did with Saggs....kay?



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