The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> From my Jewish comrades

From my Jewish comrades
Posted by Marcello (Guest) - Thursday, October 13 2011, 20:22:12 (UTC)
from 71.107.57.119 - pool-71-107-57-119.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net Network - Windows XP - Internet Explorer
Website: http://us.mg1.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch?.gx=1&.rand
Website title: Redirect

Americans believe red herring– Iran is Enemy #1. Why?
by Philip Weiss on October 13, 2011



I'm not going to answer the question in the headline. But here are three sane voices on the red-herring car-salesman Iranian terror plot. First, MJ Rosenberg at Media Matters says we've seen this neoconservative movie before:

But for the lies and manufactured evidence that led us into Iraq, we might actually accept the idea that the Iran plot is thoroughly genuine and in no way linked to the determination of so many inside our government and out of it who are hell-bent on war with Iran and who would do anything they can to achieve it.
Fortunately, however, and this may be the only fortunate thing about the Iraq war, the Iraq experience taught us to be skeptical, especially of anything and everything championed by the hawks.

...The neocons' "drop bombs now and ask questions later" approach has been thoroughly discredited. How stupid would we have to be, then, to allow the same gang to lead us into yet another reckless war, one that would be infinitely more deadly?

And here is a very insightful piece about the railroading of American public opinion on Iran, called "Dear America, Iran is not your country's greatest threat," by Madison Schramm at the CSM (posted at Business Insider-- h/t Mark Wauck):

Well before Attorney General Holder announced the thwarted assassination plot, in two recent Gallup polls, Americans ranked Iran as enemy No. 1 – in front of the two countries the US is at war in; before China, which owns over $1 trillion in US treasuries; in front of Pakistan, where Osama bin Laden was found; ahead of Yemen and Somalia where some of the most recent terrorist attackers hail from; and even before unpredictable, weaponized North Korea....
George Bush included Iran in the "axis of evil" in his State of the Union address in 2002. Rick Santorum said in the Ames Republican presidential debate a little over a month ago, “anyone that suggests that Iran is not a threat to this country or is not a threat to stability in the Middle East is obviously not seeing the world very clearly.” But clarity is not prevailing in the calculations of Mr. Santorum and others. The Eurasia Group’s 2011 Top Risks Report included Iran in the "Red Herring" category.

And this latest furor over Iran may fall into that category as well.
...such a plot would seemingly go against Tehran’s most basic political interests. The last thing the Iranians would want is to empower the US-Saudi relationship. Several pundits have pointed out how the alleged plot also runs counter to Iran’s past behavior. Former Middle East CIA case officer Robert Baer even said, "this is totally uncharacteristic of them.”

...Iran’s military capability never bounced back after the Iran-Iraq War, and Iran only ranks 61st internationally in military expenditures. As for being an economic threat, Iran is ranked 104th internationally in terms of GDP per capita and most certainly will not be giving the US (ranked 11th) a run for its money anytime soon....

Iran's nuclear program is a strategic, not a direct, threat. Despite Mr. Ahmadinejad's annual performance at the UN General Assembly, the leadership in Tehran is rational and would be highly unlikely to actually deploy nuclear weapons. Doing so would ensure the obliteration of Iran, and the leadership in Tehran is eccentric, not suicidal. In September, Ahmadinejad offered to stop uranium enrichment at 20 percent enrichment (90 percent is considered weapons grade) if Iran were guaranteed fuel for a medical research reactor.

Yes, Iran has almost hit the nuclear capable mark, at which point it would possess the technical expertise and materials to move quickly to create a weapon. But if Iran manages to cross that threshold, it will be in the company of the estimated 40 states already in the nuclear capable club. Were the Iranians to gain capability and then to arm, Washington would need to prepare for some muscle flexing – not Armageddon...

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has warned that Iran will instigate an arms race, but the arms race in the Middle East began in the 1960s when Israel armed. Since then, over half a dozen countries in the Middle East have sought nuclear capability, but Israel is the only country that has succeeded. A nuclear Iran could very well accelerate an arms race, but it could be contained. By leveraging US patronage to the region and continuing to supply Gulf states with conventional weapons, the US could dissuade other countries from joining the race.

Glenn Greenwald at Salon:
Perpetual war-cheerleader Ken Pollack of Brookings says that, if true, this plot “shows that Tehran is meaner and nastier than ever before” and “would represent a major escalation of Iranian terrorist operations against the United States.” Also, he announces, this “should remind us that Iran also is not a normal country by any stretch of the imagination.” That — self-anointed arbiter of who is and is not a “normal country” — from a person as responsible as any pundit or think-tank expert for the attack on Iraq that killed at least 100,000 human beings, denouncing as Terrorists and abnormal a country that has invaded nobody...

On NPR this morning, Ray Takeyh of the Council on Foreign Relations — and Ken Pollack’s co-author on Iran — said this when asked if he has any doubts about the accuracy of U.S. government statements: “The only unusual aspect of this is actually having a terrorist operation on American territory. I don’t know what the evidence about this is, but I’m not in a position to doubt it.” That perfectly summarizes the political, media and “expert” class’ attitude toward U.S. Government claims: they’re keeping everything secret about their accusations, so there’s no reason to doubt what they’re claiming. The National Security Priesthood that uncritically amplified every U.S. Government claim and fanned the flames of war against Iraq is alive, well, and more mindless and dutiful than ever.

.{ 22 comments… read them below or add one }

Richard Witty October 13, 2011 at 2:08 pm

Who is America’s biggest enemy?
Iran.

What that means is that the US has really no short-term threatening enemies. Certainly, Iran is an ideological enemy, and seems to have desires of empire.
Iran certainly does threaten Israel, Saudi Arabia, others.
Containment.

. Dan Crowther October 13, 2011 at 2:44 pm

So, a country that has not invaded another, in what – two centuries? is a threat to the US? WOW.

“Seems to have desires of empire” – evidence? Is there ANY evidence of this?
Aside from the US asking the Iranians for support in helping to development railroads and highways in Afghanistan……

Yea, an ideological enemy – our ideology means we overthrow their elected government and install the shah – their ideology is that they didn’t and dont like that. Fckin radical idea – not liking foreign intrusion/coups.

To say nothing of the fact that we OCCUPY nearly every country bordering Iran – just a total meaningless post from Witty.

. Justice Please October 13, 2011 at 2:48 pm

“Iran is an ideological enemy, and seems to have desires of empire.”

Bwaha fucking ha.

How many countries has Iran invaded in the last 100 years? Hm? Does Iran have military bases in 180 countries around the world?

You wouldn’t know an empire if it sat on your face.

And by the way, was it Iran that killed Furkan Dogan in international waters?
Was it Iran that sank the USS Liberty?


. Justice Please October 13, 2011 at 2:49 pm

“Iran certainly does threaten Israel”

Even dumber. Poor little Israel with its 200 nuclear bombs feels threatened by the future possibility if 1 Iranian bomb. Aaaaaaaaw.

. lysias October 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm

I’ve been reading recently that Israel has 400 (or more) nuclear weapons at this point.

. okalouti October 13, 2011 at 3:09 pm

Witty. What are you saying?

A simple look at current facts will reveal to you that U.S. troops are currently in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf and have access to the military facilities of Turkmenistan. The US has Iran military encircled, has overthrown two neighboring regimes. Who threatens who, exactly? Are US hegemonic ambitions in the ME inherently good and Iran’s inherently bad?
and yes, Iran does threaten Israel and Saudi Arabia’s hegemonic ambitions (and vice-versa). looks like a battle of the theocracies


. Richard Witty October 13, 2011 at 3:31 pm

“What that means is that the US has really no short-term threatening enemies. ”
You don’t know what the term “no” means?

America’s interests are threatened by Iran, key issues like supply chain for oil, as well as political dominance in the region (less than benevolent), but not America directly.

Should US foreign policy and military policy protect US interests? Per the concensus of the foreign policy establishment, yes.

That Israel’s healthy and security is one of America’s foreign policy interests is also a given.

Phil’s headline is weak is the point.

If AB is America’s most wanted criminal. What has AB done? Stole $5000 from someone’s grandmother. If that is America’s most wanted criminal, then the rational conclusion is that America doesn’t have that many, or that urgent enemies.

Is that the same as “Iran is enemy #1?”, maybe, maybe not. Factually true, substantively at least somewhat misrepresentative.


. Richard Witty October 13, 2011 at 3:36 pm

Iran’s hegemonic efforts are bad. They antagonize their neighbors.


. Justice Please October 13, 2011 at 3:42 pm

It’s a special Wittyesque expression of the insanity some Jews suffer since the Holocaust:

They feel threatened by a stone the Palestinian boy has in his hand, while pushing said boy to the ground and placing a boot on his neck and a gun at his head.

They feel threatened by Iranian nuclear enrichment sites, when Israel has 200 nuclear bombs ready to drop on Tehran.

Witty and his fellow victims of irrational fear should be spending their time getting therapeutic help for their psychosis instead of threatmongering around.


. Proton Soup October 13, 2011 at 3:17 pm

our biggest ideological enemy at the moment is Israel.

as for Empire, the usual players like Russia, and now China is building a naval base in Pakistan. not to mention India with its space program (intercontinental ballistic missiles), and Turkey with its pipeline empire.
and Iran? they’re completely boxed in. what have they got except oil?


. Hu Bris October 13, 2011 at 3:39 pm

guys (& Gals I ‘spose) – give the Witless one a break – Witty (such an ironic name, that) and his hilariously ass-backwards view of Iran and it’s place in the current world order at least has the benefit of being consistent with all his other views, which he frequently, and sometimes very amusingly, expresses here.

All of Witty’s famously ass-backwards views are ALWAYS 180 degrees turned round from anything even remotely resembling what others might describe as “reality”
Viewed through the ridiculously clueless lens that is the Eye-of-Witty, Iran, a country that hasn’t invaded anyone in yonks OBVIOUSLY “seems to have desires of empire” whereas Israel which has invaded it’s neighbours at least 6 or 7 times in my lifetime alone, and the US, which has launched or financed wars on at least 10 different nations in my lifetime, are OBVIOUSLY “The Gud Guys”™ and obviously, when viewed through the hilariously twisted lens which is the Eye-of-Witty, has no “desires of empire”
If it were any different it wouldn’t be Witty, now would it?


. Les October 13, 2011 at 2:17 pm

Neither our media nor taxpayers object to paying the FBI to manufacture plots against the US.


. Dan Crowther October 13, 2011 at 2:26 pm

The first wave of any invasion of Iran should be the children of Doug Feith, Bill Kristol, John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, Paul Bremer, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle etc.

Maybe if we kill off the war mongers(or in this case, their kids(, there will be less of them.


. Justice Please October 13, 2011 at 3:43 pm

“The first wave of any invasion of Iran should be the children of Doug Feith, Bill Kristol, John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, Paul Bremer, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle etc.”

Damn right.


. Justice Please October 13, 2011 at 2:45 pm

Philip, you forgot the sane voice of Steve Walt:
“Unless the Obama administration (and in particular, Attorney General Eric Holder), has more smoking gun evidence than they’ve revealed so far, they are in danger of a diplomatic gaffe on a par with Colin Powell’s famous U.N.

Security Council briefing about Iraq’s supposed WMD programs, a briefing now known to have been a series of fabrications and fairy tales.”
link to walt.foreignpolicy.com


. pabelmont October 13, 2011 at 3:08 pm

“they’re keeping everything secret about their accusations, so there’s no reason to doubt what they’re claiming.”

Well, no. Because of secrecy, there is no reason to BELIEVE any of it.

One question. Apparently most world-wide money transfers via banks come through NYC (as Iran would know). This is used to justify the use of the federal court in NY. So was the government of Iran stupid enough to transfer money to this bozo via banks? But if not the GOI (that GOI) then who? Can USA get away with saying money was transferred from BANK-X and not say from which account? (Of course, with USA’s secrecy, who would know WHAT to believe if USA said it?)
And, we must all ask our Congressmen, would you go into a SECOND $1T war on the basis of a SECOND slice of baloney?

. lysias October 13, 2011 at 3:26 pm

I wonder if people have the smarts to manufacture a phony transaction by feeding data into the system.



. MRW October 13, 2011 at 3:24 pm

Phil, the callers on NPR aren’t buying this. The NPR moderator–can’t remember his name–kept repeating But a high Iranian official has been indicted! as the caller excoriated the MSM for lack of verification, and reminded the public about the aluminum tubes story and the Iraq lies.

The caller, Ann from Indiana, wasn’t buying it (as if an indictment meant a trial or a conviction). She kept repeating that everyone should listen to the Leveretts at raceforiran.com

The public is waking up.
And Mr. Witty, who tried
to hijack the top of this thread, should hang his head in shame for his lack of reading and sleazy muddled attempt at thinking through the few realities he seems capable of grasping as whole sentences. Iran hasn’t attacked a country in 300 years, and it is not our enemy.

. lysias October 13, 2011 at 3:25 pm

Maybe the mainstream media want us to believe Americans in general believe this stuff, but is there any evidence that they do?


. Antidote October 13, 2011 at 3:29 pm

“How stupid would we have to be, then, to allow the same gang to lead us into yet another reckless war, one that would be infinitely more deadly?”

How stupid were you when Wilson lied you into WW I? Roosevelt into WW II? Truman into the Korean War? Did Vietnam ever pose a military threat to the US? or, for that matter, any European, Asian or Middle Eastern country?

Obviously not. But the scare works every time. Imagine some 3000 Americans could get killed, as in 9/11. That would be completely unbearable. Better kill a few hundred thousand Iranians, or even more, just to be on the safe side.

And, as an added bonus, it will rid the US of a whole bunch of Americans who would otherwise be unemployed anyway. That way, they can be celebrated as heroes and martyrs for freedom and democracy. That, too, works every time.


. Potsherd2 October 13, 2011 at 3:30 pm

Juan Cole has some sensible things to say about this, as usual.
link to juancole.com


. annie October 13, 2011 at 3:53 pm

excellent link potsherd. i loved his 1 thru 10 but then this:
Moreover, there is every reason to think, as Jeffrey Toobin suggests is a possibility, that Arbab was entrapped into this plan by a criminal drug runner in the pay of the US government, who suggested most of the key details to Arbabsiar in the first place. If the latter was as mentally disturbed as the WaPo report makes him sound, he may have been particularly suggestible and therefore an excellent subject for entrapment.



---------------------


The full topic:



Accept: image/gif, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, image/pjpeg, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/x-mfe-ipt, application/x-ms-...
Referer: http://www.insideassyria.com/rkvsf5/rkvsf_core.php?.DHjp.
Accept-language: en-us
User-agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB6.3; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR ...
Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
Accept-encoding: gzip, deflate
Host: www.insideassyria.com
Content-length: 18350
Connection: close
Cache-control: no-cache
Cookie: *hidded*



Powered by RedKernel V.S. Forum 1.2.b9