|Re: Disproving Dr Joseph...|
- Saturday, April 14 2007, 18:30:42 (CEST)|
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>" that was when "Syrian" was replaced by Assyrian....again...all anyone has to do to prove Dr Joseph wrong is to show one source...just one, where any Nestorians were referring to THEMSELVES as Assyrians or Chaldeans...direct descendants etc...before either the 16th or 19th centuries. "
>At outset, there is good news that you are alive, but still the same stuborn person that beleive what the so-called Dr. John Joseph say.
...anyone who disagrees with you is "stubborn"....everything revolves around you...like it did when you were a smaller child than you are now. You have no need to ever learn anything...or grow up.
>For your information , and that is clear for you that nationalism is a product of the late 18 century and its birthplace is France. What I mean by the " Nationalism Phenomenon " is people before were mostly catogrized by language or religion, and in the Middle East the religion was very strong to a point a Turk Sultan became a Caliph of Islam and most of the Arabs submitted to the Ottomans because were Muslims .
>The same could be said about the Christians , when Christinity spread in the Fertile Crescent with the new writing script(Alphabet) all the people became as Semetic people and spoke dialects that were very close to each other , the religion and uniform writing scrept brought these people together and were called ' SYRIANS / ASSYRIANS ' and let us put aside where the word ' SYRIA / SYRIAC' came from , these people were called SYRIANS and the British historian Arnold J. Toyenbee was the first who used to call these people ' SYRIACS ' and if you try to find out who were these people which were called SYRIANS/SYRIACS ? you will find that all those people who became Christians and spoke one language which is called ' SYRIAC ' and such people were of the anceint AssyrioBabylonians, the Arameans, the Canaanites, the Eblaites .
...they were no longer Assyrians...Syria and Syriac refer to Aram and Aramean...not Assyria and Assyrian...Aram ,or Syria, is located east of the Euphrates...when the Ottomans took the area away from the Arabs...who took it from the Romans, they called the land east of the Euphrates Syria and the land to the west, Iraq..or Uruk.
...Aramean is not the same as Assyrian....it is Aramean...they language and culture of Aram....centered in Damascus...not Nineveh. Finally, we always refered to ourseves as Suraye...until the First World War when some in America began calling thesmselves Ashuraye..or Atouraye...until then there was no confusion...we were always Suraye..or Syrians and the language was Syrian...both referring to >Aram and Arameans...not Assyria or Assyrians.
You are insisting on seeing "Assyrian" everywhere Syrian or Syriac appears...that is the error Dr Joseph discusses.
>Thus, the Christianity took place of Nationalism , if you know Arabic and to be familiar with the Arabic leterature you will find the well know Egyptian poet - AHMED SHOWQI - when Kamal Ataturk beated the invading force of the west he said the following:
>" Ya Khalid al-Turk Jadded Khaliod al-3rabi " this poet didn't appear as an Egyptian, but as a Muslim , and for him Islam was at the time his nationalism.
...yes but that was then...nationalism today means something entriely different...the most advanced western nations don`t define themselves by their religion...Bush is trying to do that but so far our Constitution won`t let him.
>The same could be said to the Assyrian people and others in the Fertile Crescent , Christianity was very strong that took place of local nationalism.
..at that time there wa sno nationalism to take the place of...
>When the winds of nationalism reached the Middle East , we and others as well were affected by it and we were exploring our Assyrian nationalism which was buried by the Christian religion and people start exposing it.
..there is nothing there to expose...there was never an Assyrian in the last 1000 years...what Assyrian nation? You are a gaggle of sects...fighting now as you did when the Arabs came to impose a peace on you..and you are fighting over Jesus yet..all you`re trying to do is give a political/national front on your religion..and it fools no one...
>It is worth to say, that we the Assyrian people were among the first people who brought awareness to our nationalism, but there were other people who thought we were Syrians and belong to the Syrian nation and such nation is a Christian one, and this a person who wrote a book in Urmea by the name Gewarges Nistores and the book was printed in the U.S., but when everythiong was clear from our Christian Fathers that we are Assyrians, nobody took that notion period and our ASSYRIANISM was victorios .
...you are spining wool....all of you nationalists have "books" you refer to...there are all sorts of "books"...and most of them are filled with crap...recognized crap...Dr Joseph`s book is not filled with crap...we know that because of his standing in the fieled...
>Finally, your Professor is a naive person and he doesn't know our language to solve such problem .
...and neither have you solved any such problem...but Dr Joseph has provided a cogent argument with numerous sources...something none of you can dfo, except to cite Syriac manuscripts or books printed by Christian publishing houses..or by the writers themselves....
And if you`ll notice you were not able to provide what I asked for..none of you can..that`s why you yell and scream so....I asked you to show ONE person who, before the 1800s, said that HE was an Assyrian...direct descendant of the ancients. You didn`t do that but brought me Toynbee and the Syrians...we all know about the Syrians and Suraye and Suryoyo...that wasn`t the question...one more time...bring me ONE insatnce of any Nestorian calling HIMSELF an Assyrian...just one...show us that the Nestorians always knew they were Assyrians and proud of it and insisting on it etc.
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