The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: William Warda

Re: William Warda
Posted by Rashad (Guest) - Monday, May 27 2013, 4:28:06 (UTC)
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Rashad wrote:
>I saw this piece by William and I would like to take it apart.
>
>"Assyrians from the fall Nineveh to the Present
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>by William Warda
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>After reading Mr. Frederick Aprim's newly published book "Assyrians; The Continuous Saga" I was compelled to write this commentary.
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>At times western writers with limited knowledge about the history of the Syriac speaking inhabitants of Mesopotamia have vigorously questioned their descendance from the ancient Assyrians. Though they have not said so but some imply that the ancient Assyrians were defeated into extinction by the Chaldeans and the Medes in 612 B.C. and the name Assyrian was forgotten until Layard discovered their ancient ruins in mid 19th century. These claims betray lack of a well rounded historical knowledge and can be traced to the influence of the Old testament and its portrayal of the ancient Assyrians as the enemies of God therefore destroyed by him. Such long held prejudices and assumptions are difficult to undo especially when they are believed as a matter of faith.

Nobody has ever stated that. The empire was defeated, some of the ancients survived but their identity was lost. This is exactly why real historians don't get their information about the ancients from the bible, religious book. Christian historians, who are more interested in confirming biblical truth, read the bible and try to compare, but others don't do that. The bible says very, very little about the ancients and much of it not even correct.
>
>Up to the recent centuries the most popular image in the west representing the ancient Assyrians and Babylonians was the picture of the half ruined mythical Tower of Babel destroyed by God when allegedly mankind rose to challenge his authority. The hellfire and brimstone preachers recited Nahum's account on how Nineveh was destroyed to show that even the mightiest nations can be obliterated by God, but no one paid attention to the line where Nahum admits that Assyrians "scattered on the mountain". Poets such as Byron wrote poetry about the "Assyrian coming down like the wolf on the fold, And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold" The artists were busy painting pictures showing how the angels of God killed 85,000 Assyrians overnight when King Sennacherib in 701 B.C. dared to attack jerusalem. As one writer put it 'Over the centuries, Assyrians have suffered from a "bad press."' often portrayed as Barbarians who deserved to be destroyed.

Most people have never even heard of Assyrians and part of it is because there existed no such identity for so long and not popular. Even with modern Assyrians emerging in recent centuries, nobody has taken interest in them, and this can be seen as national geographics, and others mention Egyptians, Chinese, Greeks, etc, but not Assyrians, or if they do, it's the ancients, and not the modern ones. That's because no serious historian believes much about the modern ones, when they do link people to ancient Assyrians/Babylonians, they do it with Iraq in general, and not just the Nestorians and Christians. Again, this is why I don't get my information from the bible.
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>But as more ancient records are examined we come to realize that most of what people learned about the Assyrians in the past was biased and exaggerated. The Assyrialogist Dr. Saggs, Professor of Semitic Languages, and author of many works, in his 'The Might that was Assyria' wrote: "I actually like the Assyrians, warts and all: I make no apology for this. Though the Assyrians, like the people of every other nation ancient and modern, were sometimes less than kind to their fellow humans, I feel no compulsion to be continually advertising my own right mindedness by offering judgment upon their every action or attitude in terms of current liberal orthodoxy....Assyrians have been maligned. Certainly they could be rough and tough to maintain order, but they were defenders of civilization, not barbarian destroyers."
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>It was primarily the Old Testament influence which had convinced even the well educated that Assyrians had long ceased to exist. Confronted with the Christian Assyrians who claimed to be the descendant of the ancient nation some writers went out of their way to deny such a kinship. It became a common refrain to assert that "Nestorians, and Jacobites never called themselves by that name" and that "the name Assyrian was given to them in mid 19th century by the Anglican missionaries." While such claims fooled the unsuspecting readers for those who were willing to do further research it was obvious that these statements were contrary to the facts. If such was the case then one should not find any references to the Assyrians as an existing people between 612 B.C. until mid 19th century AD.

That's not where the convincing comes from, at least not for historians and scholars of this field. That's where bigotry certainly comes from but nobody has ever insisted that all Assyrians or people with such blood were wiped out and that there is nobody today who has Assyrian blood. The identity was lost, they were forgotten and lost as a people or nation but there are certainly people with Assyrian blood just as there are people with AZtec blood, etc. There is a good reason why Fred Aprim, who you are praising, is not a historian.
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>Was The second century Tatian an Anglican agent before there were Anglicans when he identified himself as Assyrian? Were the early Syriac documents describing the beginning of christianity in Assyria and among the Assyrians written by the Anglican missionaries? Was the Fast of the Ninevites observed since the early centuries of christianity by the Syriac Speaking Christians of Mesopotamia an Anglican conspiracy? Why did Syriac speaking christians who lived in Nineveh and those further away considered the ancient city an important aspect of their identity while the rest of the world believed that it was destroyed in 612 B.C. and never resettled? On the walls of a seventh century Nestorian missionary church in China archaeologists were surprised to find the picture of "Jonah in Nineveh" expressing the sentiments of the Christian Assyrians who traveled there. The historical and archaeological evidences supporting the kinship of the contemporary Assyrians to their ancient forefathers is so overwhelming that no amount of misinterpretation or playing word games can brush it aside.

Tatian never claimed to be "Assyrian" as in his actual ethnicity. He was born in the land which was once Assyria. This is no different from an Irish person being born there during those days mentioning the land as Assyria. There were many times where that land was mentioned as Assyria and people weren't totally dumb. They knew that there was once an Assyria in the region. It is natural to take some pride when living in a land with rich history. The modern Arabs of southern Iraq also identify themselves with the Babylonians and Sumerians. Why aren't their claims taken serious? Aprim goes out of his way to find people related to ancient Babylonians(ignores the Muslims who claim relation)and he does this to get the modern Chaldean to stop using that name. Those findings in China mean nothing in this regard. It's Aramaic writing and the story of Jonah, silly as it is, is mentioned in the bible. Those missionaries were doing religious activity, nothing to do with ancient Assyrians.



Frederick Aphrim has systematically gathered impressive amount of information attesting to the continuous survival of the Assyrians from the fall of Nineveh to the present. His book "Assyrians: The continuing Saga" contains one documented reference after another showing that Assyrians lived in the land of their forefathers and were recognized as Assyrians during all centuries. The turns and twists of history have changed the demography of their homeland and has made it difficult to imagine that before the Arab conquest the dominant culture of Iraq and part of Turkey was Assyrian. The Assyrian legacy in the two regions before and during the early centuries of the Arab Conquest remains buried under an Arab and Islamic veneer superimposed over it, but with little digging it shines through.

Aprim is not writing history. He is a hysterian, a propaganist and a liar.
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>Somewhere about the end of his book Frederick aptly includes a quote by Dr. Arian Ishaya who exposes the political games played by some who consider it a sport to question the identity of the contemporary Assyrians. She writes:

Exactly, he quotes another amateur in the field. One amateur quoting another amateur. Now let me ask this, who the fuck is Fred Aprim that I or anyone should read before anyone else? How is he any different from any other self proclaimed historian?
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>"Assyrians call themselves Assyrian for a very simple and convincing reason: they are age-old inhabitants of ancient Assyria. That is their homeland. They have churches there that date as far back as third and fourth centuries AD. That is sufficient and says it all. There is no need to engage in the inconclusive argument of racial and cultural purity. Palestinians say they are Palestinian because their forefathers inhabited Palestine and the French say France is their homeland because they have lived there for many centuries. One claim is as valid as the other. What makes the French claim more respectable and that of the Palestinians questionable, is not science, it is politics-pure and simple."
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>Throughout his book over and over again Frederick has proved the presence of the Assyrians in the land of their ancient forefathers. They identified their homeland as Attur or Ashur, referred to themselves as Assuraye, Atturaye, Atturoye, Suryaye and Suryoye which are varied forms of Assyrian.

Fredrick has not proved anything. We have historians and professionals who do their job and they have no agendas.
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>Every Assyrian needs to read this book and have it in his/her home for the youngsters to read and learn about their historic roots. Unless books like this are bought and read the time and money spent on researching, writing and publishing them is wasted, consequently no one will dare to do it again. Since the goal of most of our organizations is the advancement of our culture and heritage it is their duty and moral responsibility to take active interest in distributing books written by and about Assyrians."

Bingo!! You just said it yourself. Time that is spend and money to "publish" the books. He has to pay for a reason, and his books are not "published" as you say, but they are printed by companies which print for anyone as long he/she pays them. Furthermore, he didn't research the subject. He ignored what he didn't like to read, he took what he thought could prove him right and often even misquoted, and at other times he ignores the same author he quotes when it's not helpful for his lies. This is not a historian writing, not even someone who cares for history. This is someone prejudice and not qualified to write books on this subject. It is no different from me writing a book about this topic and paying someone to print it for me, but I would have one advantage, I would be able to find actual historians to prove Aprim wrong. but he can't find anyone to back him up. That's why he has to get amateurs or straight out take a quote out of context. This is the person I am encouraged to read? For real? lol.



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