The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> Re: With All Doo Respect

Re: With All Doo Respect
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Thursday, March 5 2009, 4:05:47 (CET)
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>The "jury may still be out" on the issue of the origins of 90% of the Jews (Ashkenazi Jews) but I truly doubt that anyone besides Western and Jewish scholars have bothered to study the issue in great depth. It also fits within the manufactured and romanticised history of most nation states.

Don't get me wrong. The existence of Israel only proves the point that you can call yourself what you want, make up any history you want and pass it off as true, and get any country "of your own" that you want...so long as you do it with massive force and violence. That's all it takes to make you legitimate...not right, but real.

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>In general you are correct we forgot our identity. But that may be becuase of our exceptional circumstances.

...you're sort of begging the question...I use our "forgotten memory to show that we are not now, and never have been, directly descended from ANY one ethnicity...not Assyrian, Babylonian or Arab. You see the fact that we "forgot" to mean we once knew and then just plain forgot.

...Had we all been collectively struck on the head and suffered amnesia, well okay, maybe we "forgot"....but we gave up our language first, and that LED to forgetting the history and culture written in that language. At this late date it's hardly convincing to say that because we now don't know..it's because we FORGOT. It's also likely that we didn;t forget because we never knew that we were Assyrians....to back up my version is the fact that we only started calling ourselves Assyrians after Euros told us...also; the very fact that the most ardent nationalists laugh at and KNOW that Chaldeans are a "modern" invention, thanks to the pope....

Our people lived in the multi-cultural, multi-religious Middle East during the course of thousands of years a period in which we had numerous names, empires and religions. Comparing us to the Greeks for example is deceptive as we had a much longer civilisation and numerous epithets.

..yes but you're taking it for granted that we ARE the descendants of the ancient Assyrians...and that's not a scientific approach, neigher is it scholarly or the way "truth" is sought....you already believe you're Assyrians so finding "proof" shouldn't be hard..on the other hand, I USED to believe it, sort-of and, blieve me, it would have been better for me in every way if I could have gone on believeing it...just like our firend Assyrian Muslim who was also born Christian and was force-fed all the common myths that come with it, who bothered to think for himself, challenge, examine and then, with all the difficulty implied, stopped being Christian....I would give him more credit as a "truth-seeker" because he was willing to pay the price for his beliefs and put his dearest childhood notions to the test....one hardly deserves much credit for staying Christian, or Muslim, from birth.

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> >> I apologized because I was wrong...I was wrong in saying that there are modern day direct descendants of the ancient Assyrians....I'm sure you would agree that no modern Greek would dare say he has a direct descendant of Socretes...
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>Now it depends on what yopu mean by Assyrian. Are you refering to the region known as the Assyrian triangle that surrounded the ancient city of Ashur? If so then the only true descendants would be the Sunni with a small portion of Kurds and our Chaldean people who still live in Mosul region. Unlike the majority of Assyrians I don't believe on the Malik Shalita and his wife died defending Nineveh in 1401AD fairy tale from which we have derived the Kalu d'Sulaqua myth. My studies of this myth led me to conclude that the only attack in 1401 AD that was made against our people in 1401 AD by the Mongols and Tiimurlane was against Baghdad in which the ruler of Baghdad and his daughter not his wife dies treying to escape the Mongols. This is quite significant as it shows that Muslim and Christian alike fought against the Mongols in 1401 and the revisionist history goes on state that the defeat of the "Assyrians" at "Nineveh" forced the inhabitants of the Nineveh plains to head north for protections where they established the villages in Hakkari. All romaticised and manufactured lies of course for which we still venerate in the Middle East with an annual holiday.

...I call "Assyrian" all the ancients period. There are certainly "Romans" today...and "Greeks", but, come on, we all know who we mean when we say ROMANS...and it is NOT those born in Rome today or at any time in the past, even to when Imperial Rome was still viable.....because by then to be Roman could mean being born in Spain and being ethnically German.

...to define ROMAN and ASSYRIAN in its strictest terms is to be both accurate, historically and honest. If we want to say that anyone born in the land once known as Assyria is ASSYRIAN...well.
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>With that myth debunked our people cannot say that they direct descendants of Ashurbanipal. What they can do is selectively "cherry pick" from their ancestors' long history and say that their ancestors were a part of the ancient Assyrian Empire only. While this may be true they conveniently neglect that their cousins and neighbours the Arabs, Kurds, etc are also descendants of the ancients and hence just as indigenous as they are with full land rights.

...okay. But I am not JUST a descendant of the ancient Assyrian Empire....I have no way of knowing exactly WHAT I am, and neither does anyone else...and there were other empires before and after the Assyrians...for all you know you are descended from the still more ancient Sumerians.

...This whole thing is only good for giving people headaches and making them sound foolish. Let's just say we're all human beans (and even that is doubtful) and appreciate , protect, respect and preserve what EVERYONE has contributed.

>Meanwhile the majority of the modern day Greeks are saying that they are descendants of Alexander the Great and this is the root cause of all our problems.

...they are? Are they asking for the land under Alexander's house though?

>The Age of Empire saw the Europeans (the West) conquer the rest of the world (the East) initially culturaly using the Orientalism framework and the militarily using their occupying armies. In response a wave of nationalism swept the colonies whose populations gained their national independence and defined their nation state through the romanticised revision of their histories.
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>However both the invader and the occupied distorted history by revising and packing their history, language and culture into nationaly defined homogenous entities.

...ees true
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>>> He wasn't wrong, however, indiscounting Assyrian nationalist "aspiration". I too think these are ridiculous and foolish. His further mistake is to keep referring to modern Assyrians as if they really exist...so he's STILL mistaken...But where he was REALLY wrong was when he slandered the ancient Assyrians...and I never apologized for calling him on that.
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>The modern Israelies are just as deluded in thinking that they can build their nation state on the bodies of the Palestinian victims - who may very well be descendants of the ancient Jewish converts to Islam.

..yes but the Jewish case is a special one because no other ethnic group has ever been subjected to what Jews have suffered under Christianity...and may sufer again. Something definitely needed to be done for world-wide Jewry...the problem is that the same Christian Euros who murdered them turned out to be the ones to offer to "save" them...and in the process USED them to keep the Mid East in constant turmoil thereby casting themselves as the "honest brokers" when they are the original dick-heads who caused all this trouble in the first place.

Let's all skip purity of blood and drop bigotry and race-hatred at the same time...I think it's what most people want, including Jews....but stressing our supposed differences has been the surest way for demagogues to gain power...much to everybody's loss.



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