The Inside Assyria Discussion Forum #5

=> What pro Armenian genocide people say...

What pro Armenian genocide people say...
Posted by pancho (Moderator) - Wednesday, September 8 2010, 15:01:26 (UTC)
from *** - *** Mexico - Windows NT - Internet Explorer
Website:
Website title:

...you donīt have to read too closely between the lines to realize that this is mere Christian propaganda parading as news....



Denying the Armenian genocide
By Jeff Jacoby
Published: Thursday, August 23, 2007


Was there an Armenian genocide during World War I?

While it was happening, no one called the slaughter of Armenian Christians by Ottoman Turks "genocide." No one could: The word wouldn't be coined for another 30 years. But those who made it their business to tell the world what the Turks were doing found other terms to describe the state-sponsored mass murder of the Armenians.

In its extensive reporting on the atrocities, The New York Times described them as "systematic," "deliberate," "organized by government" and a "campaign of extermination." A Sept. 25, 1915, headline warned: "Extinction Menaces Armenia." What the Turks were embarked upon, said one official in the story that followed, was "nothing more or less than the annihilation of a whole people."

...the New York Times would have printed anything at all that villified the people whose country the United States had declared war on...for the petroleum. The New York Times also saw weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and now hopes to see nuclear reactors in Iran...this same newspaper saw danger from Vietnamese rice farmers and whatever else its government needed to justify its wars against innocent people...the New York Times is the closest thing, in a supposed free market, to a state-sponsored Soviet Bloc "newspaper" there is. You might as well quote Fox news.

Foreign diplomats, too, realized that they were observing genocide avant la lettre. American consular reports leaked to the Times indicated "that the Turk has undertaken a war of extermination on Armenians, especially those of the Gregorian Church, to which about 90 percent of the Armenians belong." In July, U.S. Ambassador Henry Morgenthau cabled Washington that "race murder" was underway - a "systematic attempt to uproot peaceful Armenian populations and . . . to bring destruction and destitution upon them." These were not random outbreaks of violence, Morgenthau stressed, but a nationwide slaughter "directed from Constantinople."

...this is all in the manner of business as usual whenever the United States has a need to decalre war on someone who has done nothing to it...first they have to stir up the people so they wonīt object or even better join in eagerly...the Iraq war started in the New York Times and Washington Post...thatīs the way itīs done these days, only these days more people know this...back then people still stupidly trusted the "News".

Another U.S. diplomat, Consul Leslie Davis, described in grisly detail the "reign of terror" he saw in Harput and the corpses of "thousands and thousands" of Armenians murdered near Lake Goeljuk. The mass deportations ordered by the Turks, in which hundreds of thousands of Armenians were crammed into freight cars and shipped hundreds of miles to die in the desert or at the hands of killing squads, were far worse than a straightforward massacre, he wrote. "In a massacre many escape, but a wholesale deportation of this kind in this country means a longer and perhaps even more dreadful death for nearly everyone."

...testimony by US officials, all of them deeply implicated in the war, is hardly unbiased.

Other eyewitnesses, including American missionaries,

..please, these people are notorious liars in the service of their god who despise Islam AND other Christians...nothing damns this article more than relying on missionaries as well as US officials.

provided stomach-clenching descriptions of the "terrible tortures" mentioned by Morgenthau. Women and girls were stripped naked and raped, then forced to march naked through blistering heat. Many victims were crucified on wooden crosses; as they writhed in agony, the Turks would taunt them: "Now let your Christ come and help you!" Reuters reported that "in one village, 1,000 men, women, and children are reported to have been locked in a wooden building and burned to death." In another, "several scores of men and women were tied together by chains and thrown into Lake Van."

...yes, and Iraqi soldiers threw babies out of incubators when they invaded Kuwait...weīve heard it all before...incidentally a congressional investigation found out later the incubator babies were lies...but who cared by then?

Talaat Pasha, the Turkish interior minister who presided over the liquidation of the Armenians, made no bones about his objective. "The government . . . has decided to destroy complete all the indicated persons" - the Armenians - "living in Turkey," he wrote to authorities in Aleppo. "An end must be put to their existence . . . and no regard must be paid to either age or sex, or to conscientious scruples."

..."all the indicated persons" could as easily mean those rebelling against Turkey...the fact that these words and phrases are taken out of context should tell anyone familiar with Fred Aprim that this is outright manipulation....

Was there an Armenian genocide during World War I? The Turkish government today denies it, but the historical record, chronicled in works like Peter Balakian's powerful 2003 study, "The Burning Tigris," is overwhelming. Yet the Turks are abetted in their denial and distortion by many who know better, including the Clinton administration and both Bush administrations, and prominent ex-congressmen-turned-lobbyists, including Republican Bob Livingston and Democrats Dick Gephardt and Stephen Solarz.

...the evidence is not "overwhelming" at all...in fact it is underwhelming, so long as it consists of testimony by missionaries and US officials from 1915!

Particularly deplorable has been the longtime reluctance of some leading Jewish organizations, including the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee, and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, to call the first genocide of the 20th century by its proper name. When Andrew Tarsy, the New England director of the ADL, came out last week in support of a congressional resolution recognizing the Armenian genocide, he was promptly fired by the national organization. Shaken by the uproar that followed, the ADL finally backed down. The murder of a million Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Turks in 1915, it acknowledged Tuesday, was "indeed tantamount to genocide."

...look up "tantamount"....what these people cited above say and then un-say is not evidence of anything other than THEIR waffling...we have still to see the EVIDENCE....all we have is dubious first-hand tetimony from 90 years ago...and we all know that such testimony can be faked and is not in itself evidence anyway..it is hearsay and in capital cases, such as accusing people of genocide, it is insufficient.

Now the other organizations should follow suit. Their unwillingness to acknowledge that the Turks committed genocide stems from the fear that doing so may worsen the plight of Turkey's beleaguered Jewish community or may endanger the crucial military and economic relationship Israel has forged with Turkey. Those are honorable concerns. But they cannot justify keeping silent about a most dishonorable assault on the truth. Genocide denial must be intolerable to everyone, but above all to those for whom "never again" is such a sacred principle. And at a time when jihadist violence from Darfur to Ground Zero has spilled so much innocent blood, dissimulation about the jihad of 1915 can only aid our enemies.

...and insisting there HAD to be a gencocide only aids you in promoting more hatred of Muslims...as you all used to do against Jews, with these same sorts of "testimony" from Christians that they had SEEN Jews poisoning wells etc. Give it a rest...kay?

The Armenian genocide is an incontestable fact of history. Shame on anyone who refuses to say so.


...you putz. How did your article prove it is an "incontestable fact of history"? By using testimony of MISSIONARIES???? What did you provide except hearsay?

...if youīre looking for genocides, as a dispassionate defender of human beans and justice, why not look to US Sanctions against Iraq? In that case there is DOCUMENTARY evidence the United States implemented this action...that it KNEW those most affected would be children, the elderly and the weak...that it ADDMITTED, in newspaper articles and speeches that this policy, aimed at the weakest and youngest was MEANT to force their PARENTS into rebellion against their own government...and that Secretary Albright admitted, in an interview, that the deaths of 5000 Iraqi children under the age of five every WEEK was "acceptable policy"...THERE is a genocide, you asshole.



---------------------


The full topic:



***



Powered by RedKernel V.S. Forum 1.2.b9